Cross Sectional Study - COVID 19 response

General chatter, gossip, gab, hot air, rap session, etc.

Postby plateaucal » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:39 pm

Bless you sir. And thank you for the response.
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Postby RiverPatrol » Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:43 pm

MURICA!!! :occasion-unclesam:

Thanks for that incredibly revealing feedback! Nice that your employment is turning into a high demand item, that’s a positive benefit. Free childcare has never even been mentioned here but what a fabulous idea! Question - are kids attending school? Just curious.

I’m glad to know you’re finding the thread informative. I was a little hesitant going forward because it could easily have gotten very volatile, but folks have kept it civil and it has remained for the most part pretty neutral. And I agree that it is informative on many levels.
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Postby Johnny Roadkill » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:09 am

Well, that's just my take on the situation and reasonable minds may differ...

I am indeed lucky to work for a company deemed "essential" by the powers that be. Had I stayed with my last employer - a university - things would be different with international student numbers falling off a cliff...

Free childcare was a measure put in place to shore up the industry when out of work parents pulled their little ones out on mass when they became unemployed. A good move in my opinion - not just for the economic benefit to my family - which has raised the obvious question of why not keep it going and encourage parents to rejoin the workforce instead of paying them to stay home through family assistance benefits ? Anyway...that's a much larger and more complicated question

Schools have generally stayed open except where cases popped up and forced short closures for decontamination. Luckily school holidays fell in the midst of the worst weeks we had here in SA which helped. If schools close, parents have to stop work - including health professionals - and things would get much more difficult. I haven't kept up with all the restriction details from interstate, sorry - I get a bit of COVID fatigue reading about it constantly so I limit my news reading to the main points and local changes.

I also thought this thread could get out of control easily but everyone has been wonderfully tolerant and it's been a good read. 60 Patrol owners are obviously a special bunch, nice to be a part of it !

Cheers,
D
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Postby RiverPatrol » Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:03 pm

Interesting bit about Victoria and Melbourne. I don't think this would ever be accepted here. Maybe if they had started with something like this but not now. https://www.vic.gov.au/coronavirus-covi ... workplaces
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Postby plateaucal » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:48 pm

My, that is brutal in Victoria and Melbourne. Pretty sure that would be a no go in the "land of the free". Face coverings outdoors? I would like to read the double blind randomized studies that support that. It just seems that this is more than reasonable and prudent. Confined at home and curfews? This is "house arrest" without due process. If flattening the curve is the goal, which is a scientific concept, these things seem pretty extreme.

Imagine a future where many things can be declared a State of Emergency. I saw a recent example of some official saying climate change should be declared a State of Emergency.
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Postby plateaucal » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:00 pm

Esteban wrote:
plateaucal wrote:From what I have read...yes, I know it is completely unreliable, but it sounds like the Aussies are getting hammered by their government over this whole thing. I am kind of surprised that none of our Oz friends have commented. Maybe their voice was squelched as well. Or perhaps there is nothing going on. Who knows these days.


They probably don't want to get involved in our politics, since it's clear for the rest of the world that in the States this issue has been heavily politicized.


It certainly has. And that was the point of this thread essentially. The hope is to hear "on the ground" and real life experiences free of the distortions accompanying politicized media. This also helps see outside the box of personal bias or ignorance. There is a large, geographically diverse audience here and I have learned a lot from everyone. I also talk to friends and their friends, family members etc. From these It is apparent that we are not "out of the woods" and that there have been some MAJOR blunders. The fallout from this event will be felt for years if not decades.

Anyway, thanks all.

So an "anecdote" from a friend of mine. My neighbor was recently diagnosed positive. He supervises a construction crew of about 14 guys. In the same week they all got sick. Two of them ended up in the hospital. A couple of guys were ready to go back to work in a couple of days. My neighbor was laid up for about two weeks. They are all back at work now except maybe for one who is rehabilitating at home. Most all had flu-like symptoms (fatigue, fever).
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Postby RiverPatrol » Mon Aug 10, 2020 3:02 pm

plateaucal wrote:My, that is brutal in Victoria and Melbourne. Pretty sure that would be a no go in the "land of the free". Face coverings outdoors? I would like to read the double blind randomized studies that support that. It just seems that this is more than reasonable and prudent. Confined at home and curfews? This is "house arrest" without due process. If flattening the curve is the goal, which is a scientific concept, these things seem pretty extreme.

Imagine a future where many things can be declared a State of Emergency. I saw a recent example of some official saying climate change should be declared a State of Emergency.

True dat.

Speaking of the future - where does it end? The virus is never going to go away. In the US we'll never totally eradicate it regardless of the mandates. Even New Zealand that has had zero cases for 100 days, as soon as they open their borders again they'll have cases. Once any country 'gets back to normal' there will be cases. And I don't fool myself into believing a vaccine is going to eradicate it, far too many mutations for a successful vaccine. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... g-covid-19 . Maybe the best bet is to let it play itself out. The Darwin effect will come in to play heavily I think.
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Postby plateaucal » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:28 pm

RiverPatrol wrote:Speaking of the future -


This might give you some insight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb9jRqg ... e=emb_logo
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Postby Johnny Roadkill » Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:08 am

My opinion only, just how I see it...

I think the main reason Australians have been more accepting of the restrictions in place here is that there is still hope we can put this thing back in the box...for now. If we wait for the research results to come back it will be too late, and I think being overcautious is the right way to go until we know better, IF we are committed to trading personal freedoms and economic continuity for the sake of saving lives. The media is bombarding us with stories of the elderly dying in isolation with grieving families unable to comfort them in their final days - and it has worked, so far most are on board. There have been some here who have made a scene about the restrictions, masks, etc., but the population at large has told them to pull their heads in - people are good at doing community police work anonymously from behind their computer screens...

But I agree that a wonder vaccine that gives full immunity with acceptable side-effects is probably wishful thinking, and we can't keep sitting on the box and taping up the holes forever.

As you rightly point out, NZ did a stellar job in containing it early on, but to what end ? They, like Australia, are heavily dependent on the tourist dollar to keep their economy working and they don't have the mining and raw material trade that Australia has become so reliant upon. Revitalising manufacturing is talk of the town here but it took 30 years to let it decay and building it back up could take the same again.

The argument for containment is ok if you can do it since it's a one-way street with no recourse - other countries no longer have that option - but without an endgame plan it's a bit hollow...or just practice for when something even worse befalls us, which unfortunately seems likely if not inevitable.

Grim stuff, but it is what it is.

Cheers,
D
'71 P510 Wagon - the smile generator.
'74 G60H - strawberry farm patrol.
'78 G60H Ute Cab - the cherry on top.
'80 G61H - the start of things to come.
'93 Pulsar - my daily driver.
'01 Kessner 7x4 - the pack horse.
'07 Challenge Camper - home away from home.
'12 Outlander - the grumpy bunny, her daily driver.
'14 200EXC - a chainsaw with wheels.
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Postby plateaucal » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:18 am

I think in the beginning Americans were too. Heck, most people were scared to death. But then...we saw some things. Like a death toll due to incompetent medical procedures and NYC Gov. Coumo putting patients in long term care facilities. The huge and very expensive pop up hospitals that were not needed, the empty Covid wards in hospitals, the overt miscounting of deaths, the outright censorship of dissenting opinion regarding treatment, the uncomfortable relationships of some of our leaders to big pharma companies, etc. First they said masks won't help now they are mandatory. And the King of all misguidance; we are just going to "flatten the curve". What ever happened to that? Just "15 days to flatten the curve", yes that was thing back in March. Instead of a little mild flattening, they have destroyed the economy and placed the Country in to a position of inexorable debt. The USA is now more politically charged than ever. No accident. I am sure there is more.
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Postby moore_rb » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:14 am

Esteban wrote:
They probably don't want to get involved in our politics, since it's clear for the rest of the world that in the States this issue has been heavily politicized.



When an issue become politicized, it becomes absolutely necessary to challenge the political position with honesty, factual analysis, and empirical data.

Remember, the only people who play politics are the ones who want to get their way (like spoiled, petulant children) - Sometimes it is necessary for the adults to explain to them that this is not how the REAL WORLD works...

If people don't speak up with courage, then politicians will continue becoming bolder and bolder in their false-belief that they are actually in charge.

It has to stop.
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Postby moore_rb » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:03 am

plateaucal wrote:Imagine a future where many things can be declared a State of Emergency. I saw a recent example of some official saying climate change should be declared a State of Emergency.


RiverPatrol wrote:Speaking of the future - where does it end?


When everything is a state of emergency, nothing truly important will ever be attended to...

Declaring the environment to be a state of emergency (extinction rebellion) is absurd- The science behind climate change is the most heavily redacted and censored research out there. Where the environment is concerned, science has been lost to dogmatic religion. It will take generations for it to swing back. ( I say this as a credentialed student with a Bachelor of Science degree in environmental and ecosystem management)...

The Davos video is interesting, and ties perfectly into the White House Siege that is now beginning to be circulated:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/whi ... next-month


Apparently, "siege" is the new term then radical left uses when they mean "peaceful protest":

/sēj/
noun
noun: siege; plural noun: sieges

a military operation in which enemy forces surround a town or building, cutting off essential supplies, with the aim of compelling the surrender of those inside.
"Verdun had withstood a siege of ten weeks"


From the #WhiteHouseSiege
Drawing wind from #MeToo, #BLM, #ExtinctionRebellion, and protests against Trump’s lethal bungling of coronavirus, we’ll inspire a global movement of systemic change — a Global Spring — a cultural heave towards a new world order.



A New World What????

I say again... PETULANT, CHILDREN.
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Postby RiverPatrol » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:24 am

plateaucal wrote:I think in the beginning Americans were too. Heck, most people were scared to death. But then...we saw some things. Like a death toll due to incompetent medical procedures and NYC Gov. Coumo putting patients in long term care facilities. The huge and very expensive pop up hospitals that were not needed, the empty Covid wards in hospitals, the overt miscounting of deaths, the outright censorship of dissenting opinion regarding treatment, the uncomfortable relationships of some of our leaders to big pharma companies, etc. First they said masks won't help now they are mandatory. And the King of all misguidance; we are just going to "flatten the curve". What ever happened to that? Just "15 days to flatten the curve", yes that was thing back in March. Instead of a little mild flattening, they have destroyed the economy and placed the Country in to a position of inexorable debt. The USA is now more politically charged than ever. No accident. I am sure there is more.

I think Americans tend to distrust the Government to begin with, and when we saw these things we started wondering why. The left keep telling us to 'listen to the experts' but who the expert is changes daily, and their advice quickly changes or is disproven. So we distrust them.

The relationships with Big Pharma spread deep. Ever watch daytime TV? Just about every other ad is for some medication. Even my FB feed gets ads for medications. Big Pharma supports many industries.

Yes, the US is highly charged right now. What is most distressing is not knowing where it is heading and not having any control over what is happening. Either result in November is going to spark something significant. How do we prepare for either?
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Postby RiverPatrol » Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:00 pm

moore_rb wrote:If people don't speak up with courage, then politicians will continue becoming bolder and bolder in their false-belief that they are actually in charge.

It has to stop.

I agree, but how do we go about that safely? Even when you try to support their cause, there is this: https://www.dailywire.com/news/rioters- ... ing-walker . The silent majority is silent for a reason, because being conservative they tend to avoid conflict. But if there were a strong well supported and reasonable movement - like the left has BLM and others - they'd be on board with it. So far there isn't one, not publicly noticeable anyway.

California is a shining example of what happens when the politicians that want their way take over. Years ago I gave up voting because measures I voted for might win but are then immediately overturned or the Governor just writes an opposing law a couple of months later. They always get their way here, even the voters have no power to change that. Now they've taken to wording the ballot measures in such a way that they deceive the average voter into voting the way the politicians what them to, our gas tax measure was a prime example of that in 2018. I have since registered as an Independent just to try to vote against what I see happening but that's a losing battle here.

Yes, it has to stop. So far the tools to do so have not been obvious. And when you think you're fighting a Goliath like Davos it's pretty discouraging. I'm one that's all for change, if that change seems logical and beneficial for everyone. This New World Order does not have that ring to it though, especially considering the area of it's source.
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Postby plateaucal » Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:03 pm

This is a long and deep subject. But now, in public, the intents of the globalists are being telegraphed for all to see, if you bother to look. This is a process that can at least be tracked back to the world order developed from WW2 possibly. The WEF has already locked in on the next roll out which will be Global Warming (beta testing is done) and CO2. These are the instruments to further their ideal. I am with you, there are some pretty messed up things in the world regarding corruption, economics, illicit war and a co-opted system of capitalism (crony capitalism). However, are these the people that will bring in world peace, equality and fairness for all? I think they may be the same people behind it.

I say no. They are the "devil we don't know" yet. As Robert alluded to, they are bringing forth these changes based upon a false premise(s). But they are not saying what they truly want. In all leftist ideology the truth is the opposite of what you see or what they say. It's weird but true. A psychological mind game of some sorts; virtual signalling to their fellow conspirants. Will Al Gore give up his private jet or beach house to save the world? Of course not, he is too important, but of course they all think they are too important. So I see what they say they want, but what do they really want? However, I can say they are as dangerous and ruthless as anyone from Khan to the Bolsheviks. In fact I see huge parallels with our current affairs to the rise of Bolshevism. Antifa, for one and funded by Soros, are neo-Bolsheviks.

Their future may be unavoidable and right now I am trying to figure out how to position myself for 2021. I would suggest reading between the lines at the WEF, individual Country's Paris Climate Statements, UN Agenda 2030, Democrat Party platform etc.

The people won't wake up until there is a gun at their temple. It's always been that way. But that is a story for another day.
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