ckhorne's 1967 project

Builds, refurbishments, restorations, upgrades

Postby faux40 » Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:24 pm

ckhorne wrote:I'm hoping the oil priming will show if they're all open. In doing this, I had to unscrew all the valve adjusters out of the way, but I knew they had to be reset, so this gave me the chance to loosen them all up.


It's looking really, really good! It's likely that no oil will reach the top end when just priming with the oil pump because there is only two tiny spots per cam revolution where oil can get to the top end. Unless your cam is perfectly aligned (they're probably less than five degrees wide), no oil will make it to the top. However, driving the pump to pre-prime the oiling system is important, followed by cranking the engine with the spark plugs out for a bit. Then you should get oil to the top. I actually put a mechanical gauge on the main galley so I could watch the pressure in real time. Using a drill on the oil pump achieves up to 60psi, cranking without plugs gets 25psi, and up to 75psi when running.

Lastly, I wrapped a rag around the oil pump drive shaft (the home made one that goes to the drill) to seal the distributor opening. The oil belches up a bunch and if you don't seal it a bit, you may get a shower...

Have fun!

John
faux40 Offline

User avatar
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 1206
Images: 1310
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:45 am
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 1116 times
Location: Roseville, California

Postby ckhorne » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:24 pm

faux40 wrote:It's looking really, really good! It's likely that no oil will reach the top end when just priming with the oil pump because there is only two tiny spots per cam revolution where oil can get to the top end. Unless your cam is perfectly aligned (they're probably less than five degrees wide), no oil will make it to the top.


Ah... that makes sense. Good to know, too - I would have been scratching my head....

However, driving the pump to pre-prime the oiling system is important, followed by cranking the engine with the spark plugs out for a bit. Then you should get oil to the top. I actually put a mechanical gauge on the main galley so I could watch the pressure in real time. Using a drill on the oil pump achieves up to 60psi, cranking without plugs gets 25psi, and up to 75psi when running.


I already have a mechanical gauge ordered ($15 from amazon; $80 locally...) for that very reason, and bought a large flathead screwdriver the other day that I plan on cutting and chucking into my drill, based on what you did in your thread.

Thanks for the numbers, and double thanks for the rag tip!
ckhorne Offline

User avatar
You know you own a Patrol when…
You know you own a Patrol when…
 
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:14 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 141 times
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Postby ckhorne » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:44 pm

I was able to test the oil pressure by using a drill. John's thread showed him fabricating his own oil pump attachment out of steel. I took the lazy way out and just bought the cheapest large flathead screwdriver I could and cut off the handle.

I hooked up my oil pressure gauge and ran up the drill... and... nothing. It took a bit of cussing and head scratching to figure out that the drill had to be in reverse. :doh: I ended up getting ~45 psi. John reported higher when he did his, but since this was a cheap cordless drill and the pressure was directly related to speed, I think 45psi was just a result of that slower speed.

IMG_0918.JPG


At this point, I needed to move it off the engine stand and onto some floor jacks so I could work with the clutch and it's bell housing:

IMG_0919.JPG


First order of business was replacing the brass bushings in the bell housing. I expected this to take 15 minutes or so, and an hour or so later, they were finally in. And the difference was stunning - it's amazing how much play the old bushing had now that the new ones are in place:

IMG_0925.JPG


Finally, it was time to re-attach the bell housing to the engine:

IMG_0926.JPG


Once that was on, then the flywheel, clutch disk, pressure plate assembly, and the new throwout bearing all went into place.

I had posted on another thread about my inability to downshift from 3 to 2. I worked with the clutch assembly for a while before re-installing it, made a bunch of measurements, and in the end, decided to leave things alone -they were close to spec, and I didn't want to screw things up worse than what they were before I started...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
ckhorne Offline

User avatar
You know you own a Patrol when…
You know you own a Patrol when…
 
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:14 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 141 times
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Postby RiverPatrol » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:54 pm

Great progress. Where did you locate the brass bushings?
Beyond any hope for intervention

Image
RiverPatrol Offline

User avatar
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 7423
Images: 959
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:42 am
Has thanked: 6753 times
Been thanked: 2280 times
Location: Temecula, CA

Postby ckhorne » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:06 pm

I also tried adjusting the valves. I followed this thread. However, I don't really understand the instructions. I set the first cylinder to it's highest position, and adjusted valves 1,2,3,6,8,9. But the next set of instructions say to set the #6 cylinder at it's highest position and set the remaining valves. But... when #1 is at TDC, #6 is as well....

Can someone help me?
ckhorne Offline

User avatar
You know you own a Patrol when…
You know you own a Patrol when…
 
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:14 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 141 times
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Postby faux40 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:20 pm

When #1 is at TDC, they are referring to the power stroke -- it's just finished compressing and is about to explode and be jammed back down. At this exact point, #6 is also at the top, but at the end of the exhaust stroke and just about to open the intake and suck in fuel and air. From TDC #1 to TDC #6, you rotate the crank 360 degrees -- at which time #1 will again be at the top but not on the compression stroke. In other words, there are actually two TDCs for each piston with the one generally referred to as "TDC" being the compression stroke version.

Somewhat related, the order in which you adjust the valves is really irrelevant -- Just make sure that any particular valve you are adjusting is completely off the cam lobe. If you watch one pair of valves while turning the engine by hand, you'll see the exhaust valve open/close, then the intake will open/close, then it will wait about a full revolution before the valves move again. Just make sure that for any valve, you're roughly in the middle of that delay window. Planning ahead like the thread promotes will save time (and effort since you'll spin the engine less), but doesn't make the adjustment any better... just don't miss any valves!

John
faux40 Offline

User avatar
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 1206
Images: 1310
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:45 am
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 1116 times
Location: Roseville, California

Postby faux40 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:22 pm

RiverPatrol wrote:Great progress. Where did you locate the brass bushings?


At bronzebushings.com -- they're really cheap too. About $1.15 each or so.

viewtopic.php?p=21373#p21373

http://www.bronzebushings.com/sae-841-s ... 4-oal.html
faux40 Offline

User avatar
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 1206
Images: 1310
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:45 am
Has thanked: 636 times
Been thanked: 1116 times
Location: Roseville, California

Postby moore_rb » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:29 pm

ckhorne wrote:I also tried adjusting the valves. I followed this thread. However, I don't really understand the instructions. I set the first cylinder to it's highest position, and adjusted valves 1,2,3,6,8,9. But the next set of instructions say to set the #6 cylinder at it's highest position and set the remaining valves. But... when #1 is at TDC, #6 is as well....

Can someone help me?


Each cylinder has TWO TDC moments - one for intake, one for exhaust. When #1 is TDC on the intake stroke, #6 should be TDC on exhaust stroke, and vice-versa.

so the instruction above mean set #1 at the top of the intake stroke, then adjust the 6 rockers listed. Then turn the engine 360 degrees to set number 6 at TDC on Intake, and adjust the other 6.

NEVER adjust both rockers on the same cylinder when it is at TDC on the exhaust stroke.
ImageImageImageImage

L-R:
White 65 Hardtop L60-3-00617 (undergoing restoration)
Red 65 hardtop 4L60-002565 (scrapped for parts)
66 Hardtop "El-Bondo Patrol", L60-00511 (Restored, then sold June2020)
Blue 67 Hardtop (sold March1997)
Green 62 Softtop L60-2-00504 (undergoing restoration)
moore_rb Offline

User avatar
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 2460
Images: 70
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Arizona
Has thanked: 814 times
Been thanked: 1291 times
Location: Arizona

Postby Esteban » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:35 pm

When #1 is in compression, #6 is in exhaust. Just turn 1 time the engine and now #6 will be at TDC, and #1 in exhaust.

Great progress and nice pictures. Keep them coming!

Edit: Robert was faster. Didn't see it in my phone.

Wait. He has to turn 360 degrees!
Owner of the same Patrol since 1967
Esteban Offline

User avatar
Patrol Fanatic!
Patrol Fanatic!
 
Posts: 2849
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:28 am
Location: Lutherville, MD
Has thanked: 5548 times
Been thanked: 1432 times
Location: Lutherville, MD

Postby moore_rb » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:37 pm

faux40 wrote: Just make sure that any particular valve you are adjusting is completely off the cam lobe. If you watch one pair of valves while turning the engine by hand, you'll see the exhaust valve open/close, then the intake will open/close, then it will wait about a full revolution before the valves move again. Just make sure that for any valve, you're roughly in the middle of that delay window.


Yes- the "delay window" John refers to is the period when the lifter is riding on the "base circle" of the cam - and as long as you are sure you're on the base circle, you can adjust any valve, in any order...

this is actually the way I do it, since I am incapable of memorizing firing orders.. they say the memory is the first that goes... :ugeek:
ImageImageImageImage

L-R:
White 65 Hardtop L60-3-00617 (undergoing restoration)
Red 65 hardtop 4L60-002565 (scrapped for parts)
66 Hardtop "El-Bondo Patrol", L60-00511 (Restored, then sold June2020)
Blue 67 Hardtop (sold March1997)
Green 62 Softtop L60-2-00504 (undergoing restoration)
moore_rb Offline

User avatar
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 2460
Images: 70
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:49 pm
Location: Arizona
Has thanked: 814 times
Been thanked: 1291 times
Location: Arizona

PreviousNext

Return to Projects

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

cron