Minion Missile - 1973 Colombian Patrol Project

Builds, refurbishments, restorations, upgrades

Postby mad4hws » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:18 am

Hi everyone,
I've been on sabbatical from the forum for a bit. Our rocketry club is a participant in the NASA Student Launch initiative. This project has been all consuming, so the only thing I've been doing with the Patrol is to back it out of the garage once a week so that the kids can work on the rocket and then to pull it in once they're done. That was working fine until last week when the starter just wouldn't turn. Thought it was the battery, but that turned out to be fine. Looks like there are plenty of alternatives out there. Before placing my order, would be great if someone could verify that this fits the patrol

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-USA-In ... 3s&vxp=mtr

Thanks everyone.
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Postby RiverPatrol » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:30 pm

L60boerne has confirmed that this starter does indeed fit and work.
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Postby mad4hws » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:00 pm

Fantastic. Got it ordered.
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Postby L60Boerne » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:14 am

True that! However, I ended up removing it because the thrust rod was not long enough, or my electrical system did not produce enough amps to properly contact the teeth on the flywheel. Now, I know not about being a mechanic so the causes of my starter issues might be something else.

Here is what I can confirm:

a). I think I bought the same starter as you, the ones that arrived were made in China, I expected something better since they seemed to be a Komatsu product..

b). Yes, it fits, it doesn't look like it will but it will fit fine. I'd love to hear your experience once you get it in because I actually bought two.

c). The originals are not hard to rebuild. I took out the new Chinese one and put in a low milage spare I bought from RMP & O when he was selling off his inventory. Eddie the Eagle is rebuilding the OEM starter that was failing.

d). There is actually a lot going on with one of these starters. They require a significant amp charge to fully engage the thrust rod that synchs with the flywheel, then enough power to turn the flywheel.

Lastly, I have a spare (very new looking) dash gauge cluster that will fit your Patrol, if you need it. It is correct for your vehicle.

Patrolling with some unneeded parts,
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Postby mad4hws » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:48 am

Thanks L60Boerne,
I will let you know how it turns out. I actually have 2 cores - one from my patrol and another from the '67 chassis that I disassembled last year. I think I will take both to get rebuilt.

I would be interested in your gauge cluster if all of the gauges work. Send me a PM and we can work out details.

Looking forward to this NASA Student launch project being over. It has been fun, but it has been a significant time commitment for all involved, especially this mentor! We go to Huntsville the beginning of April to fly it. Hopefully it doesn't explode.

Here's the link for anyone interested in taking a peek:
stmonicarocketryclub.com
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Postby Esteban » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:57 am

Good luck with rocketry project. Your commitment is admirable! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Regarding the starting motor, and just to add a type number for it, the 1978 Service Manual states that this starter type is S114-184. That's the Hitachi model number for it. That number is also on the eBay part you just purchased.
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Postby L60Boerne » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:51 am

Pics of cluster gauge from 71 Patrol from Ecuador.
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Postby mad4hws » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:25 am

I finally put the new starter on today. At first, i was skeptical, as it is significantly smaller than the original. However, it cranked right up. Now, I need a new battery. Does anyone have any recommendations on that front?

5875
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Postby mad4hws » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:26 am

L60Boerne wrote:Pics of cluster gauge from 71 Patrol from Ecuador.


Hi L60Boerne. apologies for the delay. sending you a message now.
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Postby Esteban » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:57 pm

mad4hws wrote:I finally put the new starter on today. At first, i was skeptical, as it is significantly smaller than the original. However, it cranked right up. Now, I need a new battery. Does anyone have any recommendations on that front?


The size is deceiving, but the smaller one in the picture is actually more powerfull.

Regarding battery options, I will stay with regular technology ones. Knock on wood, I've been on the same battery for 14 years by now. Can't recommend the brand since it's not available here. It's Solite from Korea. Because of this experience, an Optima battery seems over hipped to me.

Get a regular Interstate fir that matter.

Edit: I meant to say "Optima"
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Postby mad4hws » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:01 am

Thanks Esteban.

So, I was thinking.... Almost always a dangerous thing.

Having to jump start this thing with the battery under the seat is a real pain. just getting the jumper clamps on the battery posts without them contacting the body was a challenge. then putting the seat down so that the driver could actually turn the ignition key and pump the gas was another challenge on top of that. This was in the confines of my garage. if I were out on the road or trail, it would have been really hard....

So, as I said, I'm thinking. How to make this better and more improved. It seems like the option is to install remote battery terminals somewhere else. A couple of questions for this group: 1) has anyone ever done this before? Where did you install? and which types did you use and would you recommend them.

There are several varieties out there. I like these though - they seem simple and have covers so that would be less prone to accidental shorting:

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway ... ing%20(CSE)%20(Bing)&utm_term=1100309957785&utm_content=Speedway%20%20(Dec26_2017).
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Postby Esteban » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:29 am

The idea of remote battery terminals is great! :clap: :clap: :clap: Never thought about it. More and more cars have them since the batteries are located in odd places.

The location of the Patrol battery is a blessing and a course. They do last a lot longer since heat from the engine compartment is not around, but the fact that is out of sight and on a difficult access, makes you forget about it so proper care is neglected sometimes, like adding water, etc.
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Postby RiverPatrol » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:45 am

I think that may be part of the reason that they all came with the hand cranks. Remote terminals are a great idea. I really dislike seeing a Patrol battery that has been relocated to the engine compartment. I've gotten used to reaching in and operating the gas pedal by hand while turning the key with the seat up because jumper cables are on the battery. :roll:
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Postby L60Boerne » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:53 pm

Thank you all for providing these insights.

Battery - I would not recommend the Optima battery, I have two, one in each. They are not intended to be in vehicles that are not regularly started. Each has been replaced during the rebuilds spanning two years.

Remote Battery Terminals - Yes Yes, where do I sign up?

Fuse Block - Has anyone found a commonly sourced cover that shields the fuse block?

Patrolling around the oil puddles,
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Postby mad4hws » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:32 pm

L60Boerne wrote:Thank you all for providing these insights.

Battery - I would not recommend the Optima battery, I have two, one in each. They are not intended to be in vehicles that are not regularly started. Each has been replaced during the rebuilds spanning two years.

Remote Battery Terminals - Yes Yes, where do I sign up?

Fuse Block - Has anyone found a commonly sourced cover that shields the fuse block?

Patrolling around the oil puddles,
L60Boerne


Thanks for the background on optima. good to know - the highest price doesn't always get you what you want. One of the advantages of having remote terminals is you can put a trickle charger on them when not in use. I am ordering up the parts for the remote terminals this week. there are a few places that I'm thinking of: 1) engine compartment - but that would mean really long battery cables, 2) outside of seat pedestal on driver's side: most convenient, but the battery compartment is already pretty tight, 3) pax side seat pedestal. Plenty of space to route the cables. or 4) bed, wall to the battery compartment. This is pretty attractive as it is generally out of the way and pretty accessible. I'll let you know how it turns out and document it here. It seems like the parts are pretty available at hot rod shops, marine stores and even amazon.

Sorry, can't be of help on the fuse block. I replaced mine with the painless performance kit and it is now safe and secure inside the cabin.
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