my 1967 patina project build

Builds, refurbishments, restorations, upgrades

Postby rdarnell » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:39 pm

Looking at a prior forum post, I found a diagram that showed the bearing part numbers and at the top whoever made the list showed 26 needle bearings measuring 2.99mm X 19.9mm. So I hit the ebay link and purchased the KT202620 caged needle bearing. But after getting it and noticing that my 24 (not 26) needle bearing are longer (28mm) I did some searching and found on Amazon a KT202627 caged needle bearing that should work much better. The bearing is 20mm inside diam X 26mm outside diam X 27 length. I would like to find a 28mm bearing but nothing came up for me, so I bought the 27mm. Once I have all the bearings and seals i was planning to list the part numbers and location, figured it might be a bit premature to list them before I verify I have the right parts. Unfortunately buying the 20mm long needle bearing and having to reorder the correct one last night might mean I will not be able to put together this weekend.
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Postby Esteban » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:14 pm

rdarnell wrote:Looking at a prior forum post, I found a diagram that showed the bearing part numbers and at the top whoever made the list showed 26 needle bearings measuring 2.99mm X 19.9mm. So I hit the ebay link and purchased the KT202620 caged needle bearing. But after getting it and noticing that my 24 (not 26) needle bearing are longer (28mm) I did some searching and found on Amazon a KT202627 caged needle bearing that should work much better. The bearing is 20mm inside diam X 26mm outside diam X 27 length. I would like to find a 28mm bearing but nothing came up for me, so I bought the 27mm. Once I have all the bearings and seals i was planning to list the part numbers and location, figured it might be a bit premature to list them before I verify I have the right parts. Unfortunately buying the 20mm long needle bearing and having to reorder the correct one last night might mean I will not be able to put together this weekend.


That caged needle bearing was installed by Coyote Patrol on his transmission. The length of the bearing is not crucial, but certainly the KT202627 will work better. I tried to get the individual needle bearings some years ago just to have them in stock, and at the end member robs30m from New Zealand send me them (he's no longer active and sold his Patrol 4 years ago). The caged bearing will make for a much easier installation.
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Postby rdarnell » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:23 pm

the potential forward and backward movement of the needle bearing may not make and difference but yes one closer in length would be better. I have my needle bearings and they may very well be uesable but I like the ease of use of the caged bearing... dropping needles is a real pain in the butt. I have a friend that builds axles and transmissions and was planning on checking with him once I have the longer bearing in hand. The diagram otherwise is a very helpful item.
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Postby rdarnell » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:26 am

Took transmission and transfer case out of the 1963 parts rig this weekend. The truck used to have a PTO but is has been gone for a while and the side of the trans was left open for an undetermined amount of time. a couple gears have some rust and pits but not sure if that is from the trans being open. After pulling apart and cleaning up I was able to do some inspecting. The needle bearings and races on the input and output shaft are in great condition. The gear on the input has a little pitting but I think the better bearing surface trumps some minor pitting on the gear. The counter shaft from the 1963 has rust pits on some of the gears so I will keep mine. I had to reorder the front counter shaft bearing after determining the diagram was wrong again. the original was listed as a NUP205 replace by 6205J, the original is a SKF 205B and is a 2 part bearing the 6305J is a tyipcal roller ball bearing and would make it a little harder for disassembly. I will be posting pictures and more info on part numbers when I have everything and ready to install.
6250
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Postby rdarnell » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:45 pm

Also on a side note the transfer case in the 1963 was the second version with the speedo gear located at the real of the transfer case. There is a plastic plug in the front opening and the rear output housing is made of aluminum. The 1965 parts truck had a 1967 engine in it and I am pretty sure the trans and TC are also from 1967 as is has the later verison with the speedo gear on the front of the TC but still being driven off the main output shaft.
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Postby rdarnell » Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:54 pm

Here is some of my research on bearings so far. I originally found a diagram on the forums that lead me towards some incorrect parts. 6253
This diagram looks to be from a newer manual. For some reason they show the needle bearings being only 20mm long. Mine are 28mm long. For the front counter shaft bearing they have chosen to use a regular roller ball bearing. The original is a 2 part bearing that the inner race is pressed on the counter shaft. By having only the inner race pressed on it makes it easier to swing shaft out of case. If you use the one piece 6205 bearing you would have to press the shaft out of the front bearing. The two piece bearing allows the inner race to come out freely.

This is a photo of the early manual diagram with some details written on it. I started with the parts catalog pa rupert numbers and then checked my trans for part numbers. The 65 trans had been rebuilt sometime and did not have stock bearings. My 67 and the parts 63 appear to be original and not previously apart. All bearings in them are NSK brand. I found a site that provided a cross reference of the nissan 10 digit part number to all known part numbers. I was able to draw SKF numbers from there and they are similar to the original NSK part numbers. The N suffix means the bearing has an outer groove, NR means about the same but it comes with the necessary locking ring.
6254
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Postby Esteban » Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:52 am

Thanks for your research into the correct part numbers needed! :clap: :clap: :clap:

rdarnell wrote:Here is some of my research on bearings so far. I originally found a diagram on the forums that lead me towards some incorrect parts. ....


I'm the one to blame for spreading that diagram. :oops: What I did is follow the repair of Coyote Patrol's transmission and note on the diagram the bearings he used (should have added a disclaimer :twisted: ). Also, I used information from member robs30 from New Zealand (needle bearings) Once you finish the assembly and know that the parts are good, I will change the existing diagram with an amended one.

A couple of observations.

Needle Bearings
You counted 24 needle bearings. That's the correct number according to the parts manual and from Coyote Patrol's thread. When I was working with member robs30m from New Zealand, based on the measurements he took, I did a diagram with a cad program, and you can only fit 24 (maybe the 26 is the buying number in case you misplace some)

Part number #24 on the diagram with my numbers (first diagram). That little pin is embedded into the bushing #23. I don't think it will separate unless using some force.

Front Countershaft Bearing.
Great observation regarding the two part bearing :clap: :clap: :clap: . It is worth noticing that after 1972, Nissan modified the countershaft at this point, getting rid of the race in that bearing by making the shaft thicker. Inferior design since if the bearing is damaged, it will damage the shaft as well. The bearing number was the same. Only that you throw away the race!

By the time you are done, this portion of the project build should have a different name and made into a sticky. Great information!
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Postby rdarnell » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:01 am

I did not remember where I found it, I copied the diagram last year and when I was looking the other day I could not re find it to save my life. I have looked to see if i can buy replacement needle bearings that are 3x28 but the closest I have come is the caged bearing. My needles are good from the 63 trans so I might just stay with the original needles instead of using the caged bearing I bought. if i did not have good needles I think that the caged bearing would be a good alternative.

The #24 pin is not in any of my transmissions, I have removed the gear from the bushing. The gear spins freely on the bushing and the bushing also spins freely on the output shaft. Maybe that is something from later transmissions
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Postby rdarnell » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:20 am

Did some quick looking and found loose needles available at https://www.123bearing.com/accessory-lo ... X27.80.php

They are 3mm X 27.80mm. I just rough measured mine the other day when I started my search, they may only be 27.8mm. They are $1.49 each.
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Postby Esteban » Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:58 am

Great find about those needle bearings!! :clap: :clap: :clap:

rdarnell wrote:I did not remember where I found it, I copied the diagram last year and when I was looking the other day I could not re find it to save my life. ...


The diagram I posted on this thread, and right now I added a warning note at the beginning. Almost impossible to find in that thread, so most probably will post the diagram in another once you finish yours.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5267&p=40995#p40995
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Postby rdarnell » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:18 pm

The transmission is back together with new bearing and brass synchros. The bearings used are: 6208NR input shaft, 6307NR output shaft, NU205 front counter shaft, and 6305NR rear output shaft. My needle bearings were in great shape so I reused the over using the KT202627 caged needle bearing I bought. As mentioned above I also found some correct sized loose needle bearing but did not need to purchase any.
6261
6259

The front countershaft bearing is a 2 part needle type roller bearing. I knocked out the bearing and then pulled off the inner race.
6262

I then put the reverse shaft in without the gear. Then I placed the counter shaft in place. Then push reverse shaft back in towards 2nd gear and install the reverse idler gear. Install locking bolt and lock safety tab over. Then pull countershaft back out of front bearing and let it lay in the bottom of case. I installed the bearing on the input shaft. Next I put the input shaft in. To clear the 3rd dog tooth on the input shaft you have to remove snap ring and put the bearing in deeper than it need to be. Once it is in I lifted the countershaft, while tapping input shaft back out I moved the countershaft back into the front bearing. Next I put the needle bearings back in with grease to hold them in place. Next up is the output shaft. I held the synchro towards the input shaft to clear the lower 2rd gear and slid the output shaft into the needle bearings. Then I inserted both rear bearings and then put all the snap rings in place.

6260
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Postby Esteban » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:54 am

Excellent work! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Everybody should take note of the bearings you've used, and most of all, the tips for the assembly process. Great pictures as always.

Thanks!
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Postby rdarnell » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:34 am

I thought about taking more photos showing each step but I kind of got rolling and I am not sure if there is max amount of space allocated for photos.
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Postby RiverPatrol » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:59 am

There are no limits on storage space for pictures, just individual picture size.
Beyond any hope for intervention

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Postby rdarnell » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:25 am

Excellent!
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