1967 Family Patrol Project

[bosque]

Way to go with the pressure washer. How did I get so lucky? Thanks, you didn't have to......but kind fun huh?
I also borrowed one on Thursday and got down and dirty with all three Patrols and the Toyota. I checked it out today and they look way more inviting to work on but I missed a few spots.
Preparing for an auto show must be thankless.....well.

[faux40]

It's not happy... not one bit...

I was showing a friend just how cool the hand crank is (because you must admit that it is cool!). I couldn't budge the engine. I leaned on it a bit and then... it turned over with a crunchy clakity-crunch-rattle-rattle. Something is really loose... dang! I guess that answers my question on what to do with the engine in our orange '67. Pull it out! Ugh. Probably not going to happen until January though.

Wanna hear a sob story? Thanksgiving through New Years is crazy around the Family Patrol household. This year, we're spending the week of Thanksgiving in Sunny Riverside... (with a stop in Bishop to check out Bosque's patrols... The kids are excited by the way). We have lots of family around here to there are numerous Christmas parties and, of most importantly, the boys have birthdays on 12/20 and 12/23. Christmas is on the 24th and 25th. And, finally, we may be hosting our annual New Year's eve party again (we even have a laser for the party! Kids go nuts for it!).

On a related note, we picked up the super clean, but disassembled head from the machine shop. I've heard of another local machine shop that does basic work cheaply... maybe a basic valve job there won't require a second mortgage! I'm thinking that the first engine should be a "just barely" rebuilt rebuild... if you get my drift. Basic valve job, new bearings and rings and that's about it. After all, we have three patrol engines and plan to fix up only two Patrols... So I only need to get two out of three right! The bones of the third and fourth Patrols will be handed off to another Patrol-ite later. The remaining question on this first engine is: Do I have the cam and lifters reground or just stick the lifters back into the engine despite that idiot pulling them out and failing to number them -- Oh, wait, that was me!

[moore_rb]

The remaining question on this first engine is: Do I have the cam and lifters reground or just stick the lifters back into the engine despite that idiot pulling them out and failing to number them -- Oh, wait, that was me!

Check the lobes on the camshaft with a dial caliper, and let the numbers answer that question for you... all the base circles should be close (within .005), as should the maximum lobe lift points.

a cam regrind should be $80 to $120 I would guess... check with Oregon Cams up in Vancouver, Washington. You might need to provide them the stock cam lobe specs from the Patrol service manual.

Unless someone over-tightened the valve lash in that engine at some point in the past, I would be surprised (amazed?) if the cam lobes were seriously over-worn.

If you choose not to re-grind the cam, you can scuff the feet of the lifters (and the cam lobes) with some 100 grit emory cloth, and then put some cam break in grease on them both when you put everything back together, and that should be good enough to allow the surfaces to re-mate themselves- if you can see the pushrods spin when you get it running, then everything is good.

[Esteban]

Robert, great tips. The cam break in grease is new to me, and looking for further info on the matter, found this article:

http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki ... and_tricks

However, I think it will be overkill in the Patrol out of my own experience. If I would have read this article years, years ago, I would probably have done what you mention, except for regrinding the camshaft if the measurements were good (didn't trust the machine shops with this task). Also, as I mentioned before, I was not careful in noting the position of each lifter while dismantling the engine. But one thing is sure, my engine now has over 300,000 miles on it. It has had 2 major rebuilts, and the same in the other Patrol that I used to have. Once I bought some new lifters to replace ones that were pitted. I used the camshaft of another engine and lifters of various batches on one occasion with parts that I've saved over the years, picking the best of them. I've never regrinded the camshaft, and only changed the sleeve bearings at the block on each rebuild.

It will certainly be good if faux40 could post some pictures of the lifters. If they look good, just place them in the engine.

[moore_rb]

Esteban-

Agree- regrinding the cam is absolutley not a mandatory task, unless the dial calipers say you have one or more lobes that are going flat.

Regarding assembly lubricants: There are two forms of engine build and break-in lubricants I like to use- one form is like a very thick, syrupy oil, which I like to use on engine bearing surfaces and valve guides:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-152/overview/

And the other form is a high pressure moly grease- it sticks better, and maintains viscosity until the engine reaches operating temperature- it is designed to melt into the motor oil as the engine heats up past 150 degrees. I apply this form of lube liberally on the cam lobes, the bottoms of the lifters, and on the tip of the valve stems where the rocker arm contacts it:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-1 ... MgodS1oABQ

Note that these viewpoints and methods are just what I have personally employed over the years - there are as many successful engine building techniques out there as there are successful engine builders, so I don't want anyone to interpret my points of view as the only possible path to success.... just sharing my own experiences

[faux40]

Thanks for all the advice -- It's good to have when feel I'm in way over my head!

Here are the cam & lifter pics:


Take a look at the three in the front left of the picture -- they have some pitting.

[Esteban]

The camshaft looks ok and similar to what I remember of mine regarding the tip of the lobes, but you need to double check with some measurements. I'm including a chart with some specs, taken both from the older engine service manual, and also from the 1978 Service Manual. I added a drawing to clarify some differences. You will need to place a straight edge on top of the lifters to see how concave they've become. The manuals do not say anything about this, except that they should be slightly convex, and also to check the lateral play.

We will need the comments of Robert and Ron on this matter.

Camshaft Specs.jpg

Since you mention about problems with the engine on the Orange 67, maybe you can see how the lifters on that one are, and "borrow" the ones that are good, or better than the ones in the pictures. You don't need to dismantle the whole engine for it.
- remove the lateral cover next to the distributor
- remove the valve cover
- remove the whole rocker arm assembly
- remove the push rods
- remove the lifters

You'll have to fight a little bit to push the lifters out. Try to no scratch the surface.

Good luck

[moore_rb]

Dial caliper time... Esteban's picture gives you the measurement to take (H)

fascinating that the cam bearing journals are all a slightly different diameter by design...

I don't like the pitting on the lifters, but if they are still convex, then they are probably useable- I would definitely take Esteban's advice and pick through your donor engine looking for donor lifters...

The timing gears look GREAT. no need to replace those...

[Coyote Patrol]

I would stay away from the pitted lifters! If you need some I may have some extras. What I like to do when installing used lifters in an old engine like this, is to soak them in duralube before I install them. On a rebuilt engine do not put duralube in the oil until its broken in. On the lifters it will be fine.

[faux40]

HAPPY NEW YEAR! It's time to get back at it... We got back to it... We spent today working on the orange '67 -- The engine has been liberated!

Barritt & Jay started off the first shift


Next, we stuffed Joe underneath to get those hard to get to bolts!


Pretty soon we were connecting up the hoist...


Jay disconnects those last few little things


Finally... Up, up and away!


Soon everyone is involved!


And then Barritt discovers another ground wire and disconnects it.


And it's free!


We like the new lifted look!


Now we have two Patrol engines ready to be rebuilt...