Distributor Installation

[mtnPatrol]

Thanks Esteban. I focused on the distributor problem and overlooked the original one.

One other thing that came to mind when you said it ran for 10 minutes, then died and wouldn't restart, is the fuel filter. Patrols are notorious for having junk in the gas tank after sitting for a couple decades. That junk ends up in the fuel filter and it stops running. Been there, done that.

I have two clear fuel filters. One before and one after the fuel pump. I gave them a quick look but will look closer. While it hasn't been a daily driver this Patrol hasn't been sitting. I'm trying to get it to be a daily driver, or at least semi-daily!

[mtnPatrol]

Welcome to 60Patrol!

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When I got it home I had a hard time starting it and getting it to continue to run. Yesterday I went out and it started right up and idled well for about 10 minutes. I had installed a new ground wire and adjusted the idle and fuel mixture on the carb and thought that might have fixed it. Feeling confident, I took it up the street, but after about 20 seconds it started losing power and died. I wasn't able to get it restarted.

While trying to track down a timing light, I verified the timing order is correct. However, I noticed that the number one plug wire attached to the cap on a terminal away from the engine. After studying pictures of other rigs on here, the number one terminal is always toward the engine. So I found tdc of number one and sure enough the rotor pointed to that terminal away from the engine where he had attached the number one wire.

I pulled the distributor and rotated the shaft 180 degrees (thinking he might have installed it 180 off) but as the notch on the bottom is offset it wouldn't slide in.

Then I removed the rotor and undid the screw underneath it that attaches to the shaft. I rotated the shaft 180 degrees, reinstalled the screw and rotor, and set back in. Now, with one at tdc the rotor points at an inside terminal.

Before I try to start it and ruin something I figured it would be best to see if I messed anything up. Can the number one cap terminal face outside? Is it acceptable to undo the shaft screw and rotate it 180 degrees relative to the rotor? If so, is there only two places that it will properly reattach (0 and 180 degrees) or could I have attached it slightly off of 180 degrees?
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Before going into some detail about the distributor, if it idled well for about 10 minutes, then it was more or less in the right position: it could be offset some degrees advanced or retarded, but the fact that it run is telling me that it was close. Maybe you have a different problem.

The good news is that you won't be causing any damage by what you've done to the distributor. Either will run or not. I once was forced to rotate 180° by removing the screw in the center and lifting the shaft. It can only move 180°.

You'll have to go back and make sure when #1 cylinder is at TDC. When reaching the pulley mark, it could be either compression or exhaust. Most probably will end up in the position that you described first, when the rotor is pointing towards the engine (the PO probably made mistake) Normally, #6 will be in that position. This is a picture from the Service Manual that I saved long ago that shows the correct position of the drive gear.



The only way that you can put the drive gear in the correct position is by removing the distributor base.

But my point is not to mess any more with the distributor at this time, but rather go back to what you have when the engine run. Once you solve the issue of the engine running properly, then you can revisit the whole distributor issue. You mention that when you tried to step on the accelerator, the engine stalled. Looks like a carb problem, most likely the accelerator pump that either has a slack in the linkage or is not working right. Also, with the engine running, you can try to advance or retard the distributor a little bit without a timing light. You'll notice that it will run the best (at idle) when it's advanced. However what you feel as a good timing at this point, is normally about 20° advanced or so. You can move towards retard a little bit (all this provided you don't yet have a timing light at hand)

Going back to the distributor, since you have the more modern distributor as RiverPatrol mentioned, please refer to the 1978 Service Manual that you can find in the Patrolabilia section:

http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1962

At page EM-30 (most probably in Part 1) you have a very good detail and procedure on how to install the drive gear in the correct position. Also, from page EE-25 you have a good description of that distributor and it's parts.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the welcome as well as your thoughts Esteban!

So improper timing wouldn't cause the symptoms I described?

I still haven't moved the engine from #1 tdc. However, how do I know if it is compression or exhaust tdc? Will exhaust blow the same pressure through the plug hole? My procedure was to bump the engine over until pressure blew through hole. Then I manually advanced the crank bolt to 0 degrees (it was actually about 1 as I thought the V rather than the ridge was the mark). I then verified with a chopstick in the #1 plug hole. Then checked the rotor and it was pointing to cap terminal #1 facing outside. I immediately did that again with the same result. I took that to mean that only the compression stroke causes that forceful pressure. Is that right?

I believe the carb is a new Rochester. It could be used but it looks new. I'm still awaiting an email from the po for confirmation. I also asked him about the fuel pump. It is mechanical.

If I can get her back to where she was and idling again I plan to do the manual setting of the timing to see if that helps. First, I couldn't get it to idle to do that and then it ran great so I didn't do it.

I'm not familiar with the accelerator pump so I will have to read up.

Checking out your link now.

[mtnPatrol]

Going back to the distributor, since you have the more modern distributor as RiverPatrol mentioned, please refer to the 1978 Service Manual that you can find in the Patrolabilia section:

http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1962

At page EM-30 (most probably in Part 1) you have a very good detail and procedure on how to install the drive gear in the correct position. Also, from page EE-25 you have a good description of that distributor and it's parts.

Hope this helps.

After reading EE-25 it seems my parts identification was wrong. I was calling the pinion assembly the shaft. Is the cam assembly the black thing I'm pointing to which I was calling the drive pinion?

If so, then what I did was take the screw out of the center of the cam assembly. That allowed the pinion assembly and cam assembly to turn independent of one another. The cam assembly remained fixed to the distributor. I then turned the cam assembly 180 degrees (if there is more than just 0 and 180 degrees it could be something near 180) and put the screw back in, and reinstalled. The pinion assembly remained the same as it was. That put the rotor where I thought it should be and 180 from where it had been.

I guess my two questions before I can get the Patrol to where it was are...
1. Are there more than two places the cam assembly can be screwed? It was hard to tell.
2. How do I reset the cam assembly if there is more than 0 and 180?

It looks like EM-30 was suggested due to my incorrect terminology. I was able to mesh the male and female drive and driven gears together.

[mtnPatrol]

Thank you both for your patience. As you can tell, this is not exactly my area of expertise.

[Esteban]

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I still haven't moved the engine from #1 tdc. However, how do I know if it is compression or exhaust tdc? Will exhaust blow the same pressure through the plug hole? My procedure was to bump the engine over until pressure blew through hole. Then I manually advanced the crank bolt to 0 degrees (it was actually about 1 as I thought the V rather than the ridge was the mark). I then verified with a chopstick in the #1 plug hole. Then checked the rotor and it was pointing to cap terminal #1 facing outside. I immediately did that again with the same result. I took that to mean that only the compression stroke causes that forceful pressure. Is that right?....

You are on the right track here. A friend suggested to me to plug the hole of the spark plug with a ball made of a paper towel, so the compression will blow it away. Then you'll know it's really in the compression cycle. Careful though, so you don't end up sucking the paper ball into the cylinder , make it a good bit oversize to the hole.

Regarding the carb, those manuals don't cover the Rochester. There are some member here that are very familiar with it. I'm not. There's in fact a recent thread:

http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9&start=15

[mtnPatrol]

...
I still haven't moved the engine from #1 tdc. However, how do I know if it is compression or exhaust tdc? Will exhaust blow the same pressure through the plug hole? My procedure was to bump the engine over until pressure blew through hole. Then I manually advanced the crank bolt to 0 degrees (it was actually about 1 as I thought the V rather than the ridge was the mark). I then verified with a chopstick in the #1 plug hole. Then checked the rotor and it was pointing to cap terminal #1 facing outside. I immediately did that again with the same result. I took that to mean that only the compression stroke causes that forceful pressure. Is that right?....

You are on the right track here. A friend suggested to me to plug the hole of the spark plug with a ball made of a paper towel, so the compression will blow it away. Then you'll know it's really in the compression cycle. Careful though, so you don't end up sucking the paper ball into the cylinder , make it a good bit oversize to the hole.

Regarding the carb, those manuals don't cover the Rochester. There are some member here that are very familiar with it. I'm not. There's in fact a recent thread:

http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic ... 9&start=15

That is what I did, only using some firm pipe insulation foam. So it will only do that on the compression cycle? If so, I'm right on.

I read that thread. It went above my paygrade. Will read again though.

[RiverPatrol]

When doing the swap, yes, the drive pinion is disengaged from the shaft. The drive pinion is supposed to stay in place when you remove the distributor. Sometimes though it will stick to the shaft and come out with the distributor. That's when the fun starts.

Is the round hollow black cylinder I am pointing to the drive pinion or do I have that wrong? That part stayed attached to the distributor even when I took out the screw attacheing it to the shaft. However I could then turn the shaft and that black thing independently. That allowed me to rotate the rotor 180 degrees. I didn't investigate closely why it didn't come off when the screw was taken out. If that piece comes with the pertronix kits, during a swap it has to be installed, so I should be able to get back where I was, no?

Sorry, I was thinking drive gear, the one with the notch that the shaft fits into.

Yes, the black collar is part of the Pertronix kit.

[RiverPatrol]

My procedure was to bump the engine over until pressure blew through hole. Then I manually advanced the crank bolt to 0 degrees (it was actually about 1 as I thought the V rather than the ridge was the mark). I then verified with a chopstick in the #1 plug hole. Then checked the rotor and it was pointing to cap terminal #1 facing outside. I immediately did that again with the same result. I took that to mean that only the compression stroke causes that forceful pressure. Is that right?

That is a good procedure. I usually use a screw driver, but chopstick will work just as well.

You can download the manual for the Rochester carb here: http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic ... ter#p20831

The accelerator pump will cause the hesitation or dying on acceleration. Normally it won't cause the engine to die and not restart though. That sounds like a possible fuel delivery problem, like clogged fuel filter or even junk in the tank plugging up the line.


This is all sounding vaguely familiar. I wonder if the person you bought the Patrol from was a member here.

[mtnPatrol]

My procedure was to bump the engine over until pressure blew through hole. Then I manually advanced the crank bolt to 0 degrees (it was actually about 1 as I thought the V rather than the ridge was the mark). I then verified with a chopstick in the #1 plug hole. Then checked the rotor and it was pointing to cap terminal #1 facing outside. I immediately did that again with the same result. I took that to mean that only the compression stroke causes that forceful pressure. Is that right?

That is a good procedure. I usually use a screw driver, but chopstick will work just as well.

You can download the manual for the Rochester carb here: http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic ... ter#p20831

The accelerator pump will cause the hesitation or dying on acceleration. Normally it won't cause the engine to die and not restart though. That sounds like a possible fuel delivery problem, like clogged fuel filter or even junk in the tank plugging up the line.


This is all sounding vaguely familiar. I wonder if the person you bought the Patrol from was a member here.

Was it this thread: http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3849 or maybe this one: http://www.60patrol.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3557?

In the latter thread a new coil seemed to do the trick. My Patrol has a tank that has been cleaned and lined, I assume all new lines (I will check), dual fuel filters (will pull tomorrow) sandwiching the fuel pump, new distributor, new cap, wires, rotor and plugs, seems like a newish carb (will investigate further), but does have an old coil. I did check it the other day but it was not hot. Could it be an issue?

The po was a member here. He added the Patrol to the registry but didn't make but an introductory post.

Thank you on the manual. I will have to check if it is a Rochester B that is on my Patrol. I know it is a Rochester. A spare Hitachi also came with it. I don't know which originally came which this Patrol. I just watched a few good videos on changing the accelerator pump on the Rochester B.

[RiverPatrol]

Yup, both of those links.

If your tank has been lined it sounds like the fuel system is clean, especially with 2 filters.

The coil could be an issue. They usually get hot. If you get a new one, get one with an internal resistor. 12v of course.