It looks like I will ruin the rubber dust cover if I attempt to pry it out. Because the starter works (mostly) and I don't have a replacement seal I'm hesitant to do so.
I want to make sure that you are saying the shift lever will pull out of the gear case along with the armature assembly while the gear case REMAINS attached to the nose housing. I don't see how it is possible. It looks like the shift lever would be removed once the gear case is separated from the nose housing. Then you would take out the rubber dust seal and rotate it forward and pull it out. The hole in the gooseneck in the solenoid housing appears top small for the top of the lever to slide down through while the gear case and nose housing remain attached.
Starter
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Re: Starter
If ain't broken... You are probably right. Sometimes we end up doing more damage than good. It all depends on the condition of the Gear Case bearing. The bearing in the Brush Cap you probably can check its condition and wear. Otherwise, take the time to oil these two bearings and polish the commutator. Your brushes don't look that bad so it's probably better to leave them. The center bearing is probably inaccessible at this point.mtnPatrol wrote:It looks like I will ruin the rubber dust cover if I attempt to pry it out. Because the starter works (mostly) and I don't have a replacement seal I'm hesitant to do so.
I want to make sure that you are saying the shift lever will pull out of the gear case along with the armature assembly while the gear case REMAINS attached to the nose housing. I don't see how it is possible. It looks like the shift lever would be removed once the gear case is separated from the nose housing. Then you would take out the rubber dust seal and rotate it forward and pull it out. The hole in the gooseneck in the solenoid housing appears top small for the top of the lever to slide down through while the gear case and nose housing remain attached.
To clarify your other concern, if you take the rubber dust cover, all of these components will come off as a unit (they will slide out of the gear case):
- armature
- bendix
- shift lever
Edit:
The following is the exploded view from the 1971 Parts Manual that mtnPatrol has been using and is referring in his writing:
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Re: Starter
Here is how I disassembled my starter.
My starter is an Hitachi. It has ISO on it and the 1971 Parts Manual lists both an Hitachi and Hitachi ISO starter, so I assume it is an Hitachi ISO. My part numbers below will be from that section of the manual.
My goal was to have access to the armature assembly and brushes to do a light service and assessment. My starter was working but a good percentage of the time turning the key leads to a grinding sound. I was hopeful but not optimistic that a light service would correct the issue.
I initially attempted to follow the Model P Engine Service Manual and then tried Esteban's method. In the end, this is how I was able to get at the armature assembly. Essentially, it required an almost complete disassembly. I couldn't see a less involved method.
1. Remove two through bolts (#43) and remove rear cover (#20). (note: I had to use a rubber mallet to separate)
2. Remove two bolts (#49) holding solenoid to the housing gooseneck. Remove the solenoid (#51). (note: there is a little t that sits in a cradle so the solenoid doesn't pull straight out)
3. Remove cotter pin (#41) and then the shift lever pin(#41).
4. Start separating the nose housing from the main housing. )(note: I had to use a rubber mallet to separate. At this point, the legs of the shift lever (#39) are still riding on the pinion sleeve (#56). )
5. Remove the rubber dust cover (#36). (note: I was able to do this by grabbing the bottom of the shift lever through the opening between the nose and main housings and the top of the shift lever through the gooseneck. I then pulled it through the rubber dust cover, which just popped out.
6. Remove the nose housing.
7. Lift the shift lever off the pinion sleeve.
8. Remove the pinion stopper washer (#9).
9. Remove the pinion stopper clip (#8). (note:this is a bear. It is a tiny and stout clip which is not completely exposed. I bent a carbon steel pick working on it. )
10. Slide the pinion stopper (#7) off the front of the shaft. (note: the pinion stopper didn't want to slide over the little ridge. I filed some areas where I had dinged it up trying to remove the clip. I think if I continued that route it would have come off but I put a pulley puller on it to pull it off.)
11. Slide the pinion and clutch assembly (#32) and the center bearing (#30) off the front of the shaft. (note: it rotates as it slides off)
12. Pull the armature assembly out of the main housing.
Where the shift lever pulls through the housing (nose housing on the left and gooseneck on the right). The rubber dust cover in my fingers sat in the channel above it :
The pinion stopper washer:
The pinion stopper clip:
The pinion stopper parts (washer, clip, stopper):
The pinion assembly with the shift lever set on the pinion sleeve:
The inside of the main housing with view of the field coil assembly:
The long-awaited freed armature assembly:
My starter is an Hitachi. It has ISO on it and the 1971 Parts Manual lists both an Hitachi and Hitachi ISO starter, so I assume it is an Hitachi ISO. My part numbers below will be from that section of the manual.
My goal was to have access to the armature assembly and brushes to do a light service and assessment. My starter was working but a good percentage of the time turning the key leads to a grinding sound. I was hopeful but not optimistic that a light service would correct the issue.
I initially attempted to follow the Model P Engine Service Manual and then tried Esteban's method. In the end, this is how I was able to get at the armature assembly. Essentially, it required an almost complete disassembly. I couldn't see a less involved method.
1. Remove two through bolts (#43) and remove rear cover (#20). (note: I had to use a rubber mallet to separate)
2. Remove two bolts (#49) holding solenoid to the housing gooseneck. Remove the solenoid (#51). (note: there is a little t that sits in a cradle so the solenoid doesn't pull straight out)
3. Remove cotter pin (#41) and then the shift lever pin(#41).
4. Start separating the nose housing from the main housing. )(note: I had to use a rubber mallet to separate. At this point, the legs of the shift lever (#39) are still riding on the pinion sleeve (#56). )
5. Remove the rubber dust cover (#36). (note: I was able to do this by grabbing the bottom of the shift lever through the opening between the nose and main housings and the top of the shift lever through the gooseneck. I then pulled it through the rubber dust cover, which just popped out.
6. Remove the nose housing.
7. Lift the shift lever off the pinion sleeve.
8. Remove the pinion stopper washer (#9).
9. Remove the pinion stopper clip (#8). (note:this is a bear. It is a tiny and stout clip which is not completely exposed. I bent a carbon steel pick working on it. )
10. Slide the pinion stopper (#7) off the front of the shaft. (note: the pinion stopper didn't want to slide over the little ridge. I filed some areas where I had dinged it up trying to remove the clip. I think if I continued that route it would have come off but I put a pulley puller on it to pull it off.)
11. Slide the pinion and clutch assembly (#32) and the center bearing (#30) off the front of the shaft. (note: it rotates as it slides off)
12. Pull the armature assembly out of the main housing.
Where the shift lever pulls through the housing (nose housing on the left and gooseneck on the right). The rubber dust cover in my fingers sat in the channel above it :
The pinion stopper washer:
The pinion stopper clip:
The pinion stopper parts (washer, clip, stopper):
The pinion assembly with the shift lever set on the pinion sleeve:
The inside of the main housing with view of the field coil assembly:
The long-awaited freed armature assembly:
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Re: Starter
Well, I darn sure gave it my best shot to break it!Esteban wrote: If ain't broken... You are probably right. Sometimes we end up doing more damage than good.
To my untrained eye the starter looks pretty good. I did find a 2" piece of pinion sleeve spring 2 (#53) broken off. I wonder if that is the source of my problems. Maybe something to do with the spring not always winding enough to engage the pinion. Though, I would think that it would happen all of the time. Any idea if it is replaceable?
Part # 23443-43600.
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Re: Starter
The good news is that the Boarder Roads Organization in India had 20 of these springs as of February 28, 2009.
The bad news is that is the only trace of that part number on the internet.
Anyone here work for BRO?
The bad news is that is the only trace of that part number on the internet.
Anyone here work for BRO?
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Re: Starter
Does anyone have a junk starter that they would be willing to take this spring out of? The part number is the same for either Hitachi starter. I'm going to post in the wanted section as well.
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Re: Starter
Excellent progress! 
I edited one of my posts, just before the description of your procedure to dismantle, including the exploded view of the 1971 Part Manual, so people can refer more easily to the part numbers you mention. This is the first time that I pay attention to the ISO Starter. Out of curiosity I've compared the parts numbers. Incredible that Nissan went though so much trouble just to change the bolts and screws. And because of where the screw goes, the solenoid also changes, and the gear case. All the internals are the same. Go figure. And all of this for only a couple of years!!
I edited one of my posts, just before the description of your procedure to dismantle, including the exploded view of the 1971 Part Manual, so people can refer more easily to the part numbers you mention. This is the first time that I pay attention to the ISO Starter. Out of curiosity I've compared the parts numbers. Incredible that Nissan went though so much trouble just to change the bolts and screws. And because of where the screw goes, the solenoid also changes, and the gear case. All the internals are the same. Go figure. And all of this for only a couple of years!!
You might be able to source this spring in other places. If it's similar, will probably do the trick. Difficult to say for good if that was a source of your problems, but probably you're right.mtnPatrol wrote:...
To my untrained eye the starter looks pretty good. I did find a 2" piece of pinion sleeve spring 2 (#53) broken off. I wonder if that is the source of my problems. Maybe something to do with the spring not always winding enough to engage the pinion. Though, I would think that it would happen all of the time. Any idea if it is replaceable?
Part # 23443-43600.
Owner of the same Patrol since 1967
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Re: Starter
Any thoughts on the state of the pinion gear teeth? Sorry about the quality.
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Re: Starter
Thank you for adding the exploded diagram. That is helpful.Esteban wrote:Excellent progress!
I edited one of my posts, just before the description of your procedure to dismantle, including the exploded view of the 1971 Part Manual, so people can refer more easily to the part numbers you mention. This is the first time that I pay attention to the ISO Starter. Out of curiosity I've compared the parts numbers. Incredible that Nissan went though so much trouble just to change the bolts and screws. And because of where the screw goes, the solenoid also changes, and the gear case. All the internals are the same. Go figure. And all of this for only a couple of years!!
You might be able to source this spring in other places. If it's similar, will probably do the trick. Difficult to say for good if that was a source of your problems, but probably you're right.mtnPatrol wrote:...
To my untrained eye the starter looks pretty good. I did find a 2" piece of pinion sleeve spring 2 (#53) broken off. I wonder if that is the source of my problems. Maybe something to do with the spring not always winding enough to engage the pinion. Though, I would think that it would happen all of the time. Any idea if it is replaceable?
Part # 23443-43600.
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Re: Starter
After finally getting my starter disassembled I was able to give it a good cleaning. The Model P Service Manual recommends polishing the inside of the core if it is rusty. Does that mean the case where the coil field is? Should you clean the poles?
After a good cleaning I was able to further inspect my starter. Again, mostly everything looked good. There was a bit of wear on the rear case bushing (#19). As I looked closer, I noticed a good sized recess that extends approximately 25% of the way around the bushing. It is fairly wide as well. The recess is near the far end of the bearing. In it sits something like felt. That material was only in about half of the recess. Is that recess and material supposed to be there?
After a thorough cleaning, I lightly sanded my commutator with the 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper.
When I begin reassembly I plan to oil the gear case bearing (#34), the rear case bearing (#19), and the center bearing (#31) . The service manual recommends coating the armature with oil. Which parts of the armature should get oil (commutator, windings, ridges and valleys of the main section)? Can all areas of the shaft get oil? Does the weight of oil used for coating matter? Is there any place to keep oil away from?
After a good cleaning I was able to further inspect my starter. Again, mostly everything looked good. There was a bit of wear on the rear case bushing (#19). As I looked closer, I noticed a good sized recess that extends approximately 25% of the way around the bushing. It is fairly wide as well. The recess is near the far end of the bearing. In it sits something like felt. That material was only in about half of the recess. Is that recess and material supposed to be there?
After a thorough cleaning, I lightly sanded my commutator with the 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper.
When I begin reassembly I plan to oil the gear case bearing (#34), the rear case bearing (#19), and the center bearing (#31) . The service manual recommends coating the armature with oil. Which parts of the armature should get oil (commutator, windings, ridges and valleys of the main section)? Can all areas of the shaft get oil? Does the weight of oil used for coating matter? Is there any place to keep oil away from?